Friday, October 26, 2012

Can You Hear Me Now? (shellfish part 3)





In fairness, I want to present my discussion of the homosexual shellfish Levitical law discussion I had with my friend by presenting both sides.  I think we both presented our views with sincerity, but I wish I could have been a bit more clear or more articulate in explaining my side.

Here is my friend's most recent response:

NO, I didn't bother reading all of this as it wasn't what I asked about. You clearly don't follow the no eating of fat rule, the cutting of hair and beard. So why are you sticking to the no gay sex rule? If you can change others then they aren't written in stone and can be modified or abandoned.

As am I, rules and 'laws' of your religion do not apply to others outside of your religion. Can you not see that?

But still, you seem to follow some of the rules/laws while ignoring others. If you can ignore the shellfish one, or eating fat, or shaving, then WHY are you still adhering to the no gay people rule?

And just so you know, man can't lay with another man as he would a woman, as he clearly doesn't have a vagina.

AH... I am SOO not going to read an 8000 word essay  when you can simply answer "I follow them because those are what I'm told to follow." Or 'Because god told me."

 It should not take 8000 words to answer a simple question. So I'm seriously doubting you actually gave me one. It's more drivel like that incredibly stupid webpage you sent. If there is an aswer is all the words then send me that.

NO, moral laws are binding to each civilization and are CONSTENTLY changing. This has been shown scientifically AND anyone with any history knowledge can see this Slavery bad, wife burning bad, but they used to be common. And they aren't actually laws as much guidelines, and they change with human needs and cultures. There are NO moral absolutes. And appealing to your book on this will not hold ANY sway with me, as the 'morals' in it are horrible.

Here is my follow up:

Ahh, I see the problem, you didn't read my answer.  Okay, this helps explains things.  Do you wish to correct this? 

Again, I have already addressed this in my first post.  Moral laws are binding for all people for all time, cultural pre-Messianic social code rules are binding only to pre-Messianic Jews.  Jesus has come, temporal rules are over, but moral laws will never go away.

You are correct you are a not an Orthodox or Hasidic Jew, neither am I.  WE don't observe their religious customs.

Moral laws are not religious only laws.  Moral laws are for all people for all time in all cultures.  When God gave rules and said these are just for you Jews until Messiah comes, those laws were given with specific limits, sort of like I can expect my kids to keep my house's rule of conduct, but I don't go over and punish the neighbor's kids for swearing.

2 comments:

  1. Good responses on your part. He tips his hand by saying he won't read the explanation but he knows it is stupid. Hmmmm. He repeats his question ("If you can ignore the shellfish one, or eating fat, or shaving, then WHY are you still adhering to the no gay people rule?") while at the same time pretending that he just said he had no interest in reading your response.

    He could have at least read the short version: "There were different Hebrew words translated as abomination. They were used differently in the individual verses and were used very differently in broader contexts. The associated sins had radically different consequences and had 100% different treatments in the New Testament."

    But as with many people, they don't want to have their views challenged. That's ok. You took the time to carefully explain it. If he refuses to listen that isn't your problem.



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  2. Thanks for reading and providing a solid explanation on your own blog for me to build off of. God Bless.

    -Steve

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